Interviews

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Last March, the play Salvadas (Saved), directed by Maja Kleczewska, was presented at the Réplika Theatre in Madrid as part of the Ellas Crean Festival, part of the Polish Institute of Culture’s program to commemorate Poland’s presidency of the European Union Commission and supported by the Adam Mickiewicz Institute.

Salvadas is a heartbreaking monologue written by Piotr Rowicki and performed by actress Agnieszka Przepiórska, which narrates the brutal violence suffered by women in the Zieleniak transit camp in Warsaw in 1944 at the hands of the SS RONA unit. The protagonist, Irena K., after 80 years of silence, revives her voice to honor the forgotten heroines. The play left the audience visibly impressed, and they wanted to know more about that terrible event after the performance, staying to talk with the lead actress.

We spoke with director Maja Kleczewska to learn more about the play, and we also included part of the conversation actress Agnieszka Przepiórska had with the audience at the end of the monologue performance.

INTERVIEW WITH MAJA KLECZEWSKA

Maja Kleczewska is one of Poland’s most renowned theater directors. Her works have been presented at venues such as the Venice Biennale—where she won the Silver Lion—the Stary Teatr in Krakow, the Deutsches Schauspielhaud in Hamburg, and the Alexandrinsky National Theatre in St. Petersburg.

– Why did you decide to direct Salvadas and what feelings provoked you to discover the original events of 1944?

In August 1944 during Warsaw Uprising there was a group of Russian criminals who joined nazis and their task was to pacify the civilians of one of the Warsaw central district. I was not aware of the scale of rapes and murders they committed. I was not aware that after 80 years the most of the names of the victims are unknown. I was not aware of the impact that the soviet occupation had on the forced silence of the victims. Russian crimes were covered up. Thousands of women never told of the rapes they experienced. I was relieved that after 80 years we can tell the story of the heroism of these women.

– Why do you think these events were never documented or reported? Why is silence maintained in places where rapes have occurred even after decades?

I understood that not only soviet politics but also shame was an important issue. Women didn’t want to be retraumatized by recalling the horrors of war. Rape is a war weapon that effects are felt in the past present and future. The effects of trauma of wartime rape are felt throughout life. Silence and denial are possible self defense mechanisms that protect human psychological structure.

– In your opinion, what do you think happens in men’s brains that transform them in this way during a war? Why do they suppress their empathy, often having wives and children at home?

These are very interesting questions but in the course of my work I did not focus on the psychological processes of the perpetrators. I wanted to focus on the victims and the survivors. And maybe the explanation given by Philip Zimbardo is enough to accept that everybody can become perpetrator it’s up to the situation and conditions. Probably every human being is capable of cruelty.

– Has the way the media talks about wars changed, or is rape still not talked about enough?

Rape as a war weapon devastates victims with violence and trauma. Psychological help is needed for survivors. In every war there are victims of war rape. In the past and present conflicts. We don’t talk about it enough. 7th October women were raped killed and kidnapped by Hamas terrorists but media were biased and did not pay attention. Ukrainian women are raped but their voice is not heard. Ukrainian activist during Festival in Cannes in 2022 appeared on the red carpet, ripped off her gown, revealing the Ukraine flag painted on her bare chest with the words «stop raping us» written on her abdomen while other parts of her body flashed red handprints.The woman yelled «Don’t rape us!» as security quickly encircled her and took her off the red carpet. Her voice was not heard either.

– The monologue demands a lot of intensity from Agnieszka Przepiórska for most of her time on stage. How did you work with her to maintain this intensity without becoming exhausted?

Well, I think eventually after the show she is exhausted. The part she plays is intensive and demanding. But what’s important is the aim and consciousness that she says what should be said, she reveals what was hidden. A sense of meaning gives strength.

– What reactions did have the audiences who saw the play in Poland? And in other countries?

Many audience members stay after the show to share their experiences. There are those, now nearly 90 years old, who remember those events, who were there and want to share their memories. Meeting them is an unforgettable experience. And then I understand why this performance had to be made and why it is needed.

– Salvadas was presented in Madrid as part of the Ellas Crean Festival. How do you think women’s perspective differs from men’s when they create?

I am not sure how to define women / men perspective in art. Maybe it’s easier for me to work on female characters. I like different artists and their work but their gender has no effect on my perception of art.

MEETING WITH ACTRESS AGNIESZKA PRZEPIÓRSKA

Agnieszka Przepiórska is a theater, television, and film actress, and a monodrama performer. She graduated from the Acting Department of the Saint Petersburg State Higher School of Theater and Film Arts. She is currently affiliated with the Juliusz Słowacki Theater in Krakow, where she can currently be seen in, among other plays, the plays Dziady and Wesele, directed by Maja Kleczewska, and Please, Mr. and Mrs. Wyspiański, Dying, directed by Agata Duda-Gracz.

The audience asked Agnieszka Przepiórska how she felt about performing this monologue and what it meant to her: «I feel a calling, I feel a power to tell these stories. I like bringing these women into the mainstream. I get tired, but I don’t feel empty. I feel it as a mission. For me, this is the ninth play we’ve staged. I’ve always been interested in biographies of women; it’s my professional goal. I’m interested in recovering the memory of these women. Half of the story remains to be told, which is the women’s story.

The House of Encounters with History is an institution we collaborate with that organizes theatrical encounters and collects oral archives of survivors, who are becoming fewer and fewer as they pass away. Thanks to this institution and this play, we are bringing these plays into the mainstream.»

Przepiórska has been interested in and studied the Spanish Civil War to find common ground with Salvadas, and during the meeting she mentioned mass graves and historical memory. She also mentioned that she visited the Prado Museum looking for the work of women artists.

Regarding the theater that interests her most, Przepiórska said: «I like both types of theater: bourgeois and political. I like to use it as a feminist political tool, but I also like words; I’m an actress. But right now, I don’t find any logic in theater that doesn’t have a message or a purpose to denounce something.»

The actress also spoke about her relationship with Russia and Russian culture: «I trained as an actress in St. Petersburg, and we Poles have always perceived Russian culture as something very big, even too big. I learned a lot there from my russian teachers. But when Russia invaded Ukraine, I distanced myself from Russia. I think its culture is very important, and I really like its authors, but because of what’s happening, it’s time to promote Ukrainian culture more.»

About Maja Kleczewska and the team she worked with on this production, she said: «Kleczewska is one of the three best stage directors in Poland; she usually works with larger casts and bigger productions. For me, it’s a miracle that she wanted to direct this work. Also the rest of the professionals who accompanied me, such as the creator of the video projected on stage, Krzysztof Garbaczewski, the choreographer Anna Krysiak, the music composer Cezary Duchnowski, and the costume designer Konrad Parol. I think Irena K. wanted all these great artists to want to work with me.»

More info

Salvadas – Instituto Polaco de Cultura Madrid

Ellas Crean Festival – Polish culture with a woman’s name